Beau Rivage Update--Bubble Madness
At the Beau Rivage in yesterday's noon event I ran bad on the bubble to be the bubble boy. Oh well, that happens. Not even that big of a bubble, so I'm not bitching about that, however, the way things went down I've never, ever seen before and I will bitch about that....
So we are hand for hand and it's taking forever, even with just three tables. The rule is players that are all-in have to wait until the floor gives them the okay to turn over their hands. A good rule that keeps players at other tables from making all-in decisions based on exposed hands next door. Of course if it's executed correctly, it's a good rule.
I go from a medium stack to a short stack as the bubble doesn't seem to stop. I have two smaller shorties on my left. The two short stacks in the blinds limp to the flop. They check it and a third diamond hits the board. They check again and straight card his the river. Small blind bets small. Big blind raises. Small blind shoves and big blind starts to push out his stack to call. Standard right? Yes, until...
The dealer pushes her hands into both stacks. She's so intent on keeping the players from exposing their hands that she literally stops the caller from completely pushing his stack to the middle and he pulls it back in confusion. As her hands cover both their cards, she shrilly says, "DON'T EXPOSE YOUR HANDS!" Okay, clearly an all-in and a call and nobody's going to expose a hand. We get it. Good job to her for making sure a hand isn't exposed I turn and watch the other tables to see if anybody is all-in elsewhere. No.
When I refocus on our table somehow the big blind is now contemplating a call. What?
I ask what's going on he already called. How is considering anything? The floor hears me bitching and asks what happens. I tell him and he specifically asks if the second player ever took his hand off his chips. Valid question, I don't know. Maybe not? I can't say for sure. Although his motion clearly indicated he was calling and until the dealer stopped him. I tell the floor I'm unsure, by the way, none of the other players at the table really say anything. Of course until she stopped him it was clearly a case of a shove and a snap call.
The floor rules he's not going to make the player call off because of a dealer mistake (???). So I guess you are allowed to pump fake? What I should have asked him... if the dealer didn't think he called... why was she pushing her hands into his stack to keep him from showing his cards. Same with the small blind. How can she react to an all-in and a call... if there's not an all-in and a call. In short why would she jump across the table to stop a player from exposing his cards if he hasn't called yet? Little bit of lunacy.
Eventually, after tanking for another three minutes and apparently reconsidering his action... the big blind does call with a flush (...lol) and snaps off the small blind (straight) who is now left with less than one big blind. He has 2700. The blinds are 2000-4000 with a 500 chip ante.
Incredibly, he antes twice without putting his chips into play.
So now at 1700 he decides he's going to shove. An older man then re-shoves (Uh.... what?). The blinds who were both going to obviously check it down and end the bubble shake their heads. The small blind folds and the big blind considers calling for the bigger stack then folds. After they are allowed to show, the older man shows Jacks. I observe the dealer throw the full small blind in the pot. The short stack shows 6-4 offsuit. The board runs out 7x5d2d9d...10d. Surely, the blinds folded a bigger diamond but the short stack survives
Alright, old men are afraid Jacks I get it. Though, I'm not sure isolating a guy with under a big blind with pocket jacks on the bubble is ever more profitable then just checking him down three ways to make the money. To be fair he didn't have a ton of chips, nobody did, so though I didn't like the result... whatever.
Now, it gets bad again. The dealer ignores me telling her multiple times she didn't refund the excess 300 from the small blind to the bigger stack. I say the short stack can only win 1700* 3 plus the antes. Eventually, she ships the excess big blind ($2300) along with and the remainder of the big stacks chips on his overshove. I'm 100% she still shorted him the 300 from the small blind. She says yes, refering to what she threw over from the big blind. I decide that I've said something twice and if the guy calling with Jacks doesn't want to get the full amount it's now on him. Meanwhile floors are lingering nearby and have to be aware of this debacle but do not interject.
So the order is given to deal the next hand. But then the Jacks guy feels he's been under refunded and we stop. I tell the dealer to just replay the hand and figure out how much the short stack should have in front of him. Why she didn't do this or the floor didn't step in and fix it is beyond me. I was positive they'll discover he's $300 over. They count it out rather quickly and discover hes like $2000 over. Instead of pulling the chips and replaying the action. I do the quick math $1700 x 3 (=$5100) + 6x $500 for the antes( = $3000) = $8100. How does he have 10,100?
He's unsure of it and tells me he'd rather the dealer be sure. I'd rather her do it too. I shut up. She doesn't put the chips in front of everybody and replay the action, instead just counts it out like I did quickly and for some reason makes the same conclusion. The money is then refunded to the bigger stack.
Anybody paying attention to the math problem here and see the mistake we all made? Only after I walked away did I realize he was only $300 over as I initially thought and not $2000 over. Why? We should have multiplied $1700 by four (shover, reshover, small blind and big blind).
I believe the confusion initially was when I was making sure the pot was right the short stack had pulled $1700 back and we knew to multiply what he could win by 3. I kept saying she had to refund the $300 to the big stack from the small blind, because the small stack could only win $1700 x 3. After we started to move on to the next hand, and the bigger stack questioned it, the player had taken his $1700 from the side and intermingled it back into his shorter stack. Still we kept multiplying by three but forgot to accommodate the $1700 which had been on the side initially. Again, had the dealer simply put out the antes and all the chips in front of the players (as I thought was protocol in these situations) the right answer would have been discovered.
Yawn. I know. Boring math and chip logistics.
Here's where it gets important again.
I'm in the big blind the next hand with garbage. The guy who couldn't cover a big blind the hand before shoves. The same old man re-shoves again. I hate my hand and decide I can fold to the money now if the bigger stack wins. First guy shows AK. Second guy QQ.
The run out is xx10, j, Q. The shorter stack has Broadway. Now the QQ is crippled. In retrospect... I believe the QQ would have gone bust had his stack been $1700 less and the shorter stack $1700 more (a $3400 swing). Positions would have been reversed and the bubble over.
Math is fundamental.
But wait... there's more...
So, the next hand I'm in the small blind. The former short stack in the big blind, another player calls from the button and says, "Don't worry, I know just to check it down." The big blind says "absolutely, I'm just going to check it down."
The floor behind me says "Oh, so you guys are colluding?." The dealer almost just deals out the flop and then the turn without going through the pretense of them checking. She stops herself and does it correctly. Regardless, I bust somehow I had Ace 8, and was against AQ and A10 and we all flopped an Ace. After that I walk away but pretty sure nothing was done about the blatant collusion.
By the way, I'm fine with that to a degree. It's always unspoken collusion in that spot and had the guy with Jacks not shoved, these two would probably would have never had actually spoken it. They were more referencing his silliness but nonetheless, when the first guy spoke there was still action to be completed by multiple players, One guy after him ended up folding. Plus, the big blind would have had an option to raise but agreed in advance of the other player folding to not take it lol... so in that regard, yeah, probably a penalty should have been administered even if the intent was not necessarily malicious. You can't do that.
*It's possible a penalty was given after I left as I didn't stack around that long.
Never seen such a comedy of errors on the bubble before... just nonsense. To be honest, I care less about being the bubble boy and more about it being just handled terribly in three consecutive hands.
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Anyway, besides some sit n go wins I ran pretty bad at the Beau Rivage (though I did have a pretty good return off an investment in a guy who hit for a big score in the rentry). Some of my events were rolled over for investors this summer using profits from the WSOP. Obviously, haven't been playing a lot of tournaments (with big prize pools) this year... if it's January and only now am I getting some of their events. Course, I wanted to play in something with big upside. The million dollar heater has that as there are few tournaments with 500k guarantees on a $345 buy-in.
A lot of waiting for nothing. This is how they went:
1. For the first time in a long time I didn't drag a single pot in a tournament. Literally never had the best hand and though I made folds (and was shown better hands often)... playing well and losing the minimum wears on you. When I finally busted it was like somebody put me out my misery.
2. I got Peace-d. Peace Marvel is Louisiana swordfish and tuna fisherman. Good guy, good for the game... whose range, as Prissy Grior says, is the deck. Lots of people have run into his hands and left wringing theirs after busting in odious fashion. He limps. Another guy limps. I look at Aces in the big blind. I put a hearty raise out there. Peace asks if I'm picking on him because I'd raised him quite a lot. He calls for what amounts to at least 15% of his stack. The other player joins the fray. Flop is KJ4. Two diamonds.
I bet pot and commit myself. Peace raises. Uh... King Jack I guess. Not sure I can rethink things and fold. I have the back door draws, the aces, and pairing the board if I behind. Since it's Peace I could be way ahead also. I call. He shows K4. Oh. That's a perfectly reasonable Peach hand to limp call from early position. I don't improve.
3. Play late in to the night, get some momentum get some chips, make some great calls for big pots (King high, second pair on a wet board) and am playing well. Shove on a guy on a flop where we are basically flipping. He snap calles I have Pair of Aces and the 10 clubs on a three club board. He has pair of Aces and Queen kicker. Hit my 10 on the turn and he hits one of two non club queens in the deck to eliminate me. 96% after the turn. Yuck
Regardless... I think I ran bad in every possible way or situation. The bubble being the absolute worst bubble I've ever seen first hand. I hope I'm wrong and the $1700 chip mistake didn't save the old man the second time he shoved. Gross if it did. Maybe I should just not play at the Beau.
So we are hand for hand and it's taking forever, even with just three tables. The rule is players that are all-in have to wait until the floor gives them the okay to turn over their hands. A good rule that keeps players at other tables from making all-in decisions based on exposed hands next door. Of course if it's executed correctly, it's a good rule.
I go from a medium stack to a short stack as the bubble doesn't seem to stop. I have two smaller shorties on my left. The two short stacks in the blinds limp to the flop. They check it and a third diamond hits the board. They check again and straight card his the river. Small blind bets small. Big blind raises. Small blind shoves and big blind starts to push out his stack to call. Standard right? Yes, until...
The dealer pushes her hands into both stacks. She's so intent on keeping the players from exposing their hands that she literally stops the caller from completely pushing his stack to the middle and he pulls it back in confusion. As her hands cover both their cards, she shrilly says, "DON'T EXPOSE YOUR HANDS!" Okay, clearly an all-in and a call and nobody's going to expose a hand. We get it. Good job to her for making sure a hand isn't exposed I turn and watch the other tables to see if anybody is all-in elsewhere. No.
When I refocus on our table somehow the big blind is now contemplating a call. What?
I ask what's going on he already called. How is considering anything? The floor hears me bitching and asks what happens. I tell him and he specifically asks if the second player ever took his hand off his chips. Valid question, I don't know. Maybe not? I can't say for sure. Although his motion clearly indicated he was calling and until the dealer stopped him. I tell the floor I'm unsure, by the way, none of the other players at the table really say anything. Of course until she stopped him it was clearly a case of a shove and a snap call.
The floor rules he's not going to make the player call off because of a dealer mistake (???). So I guess you are allowed to pump fake? What I should have asked him... if the dealer didn't think he called... why was she pushing her hands into his stack to keep him from showing his cards. Same with the small blind. How can she react to an all-in and a call... if there's not an all-in and a call. In short why would she jump across the table to stop a player from exposing his cards if he hasn't called yet? Little bit of lunacy.
Eventually, after tanking for another three minutes and apparently reconsidering his action... the big blind does call with a flush (...lol) and snaps off the small blind (straight) who is now left with less than one big blind. He has 2700. The blinds are 2000-4000 with a 500 chip ante.
Incredibly, he antes twice without putting his chips into play.
So now at 1700 he decides he's going to shove. An older man then re-shoves (Uh.... what?). The blinds who were both going to obviously check it down and end the bubble shake their heads. The small blind folds and the big blind considers calling for the bigger stack then folds. After they are allowed to show, the older man shows Jacks. I observe the dealer throw the full small blind in the pot. The short stack shows 6-4 offsuit. The board runs out 7x5d2d9d...10d. Surely, the blinds folded a bigger diamond but the short stack survives
Alright, old men are afraid Jacks I get it. Though, I'm not sure isolating a guy with under a big blind with pocket jacks on the bubble is ever more profitable then just checking him down three ways to make the money. To be fair he didn't have a ton of chips, nobody did, so though I didn't like the result... whatever.
Now, it gets bad again. The dealer ignores me telling her multiple times she didn't refund the excess 300 from the small blind to the bigger stack. I say the short stack can only win 1700* 3 plus the antes. Eventually, she ships the excess big blind ($2300) along with and the remainder of the big stacks chips on his overshove. I'm 100% she still shorted him the 300 from the small blind. She says yes, refering to what she threw over from the big blind. I decide that I've said something twice and if the guy calling with Jacks doesn't want to get the full amount it's now on him. Meanwhile floors are lingering nearby and have to be aware of this debacle but do not interject.
So the order is given to deal the next hand. But then the Jacks guy feels he's been under refunded and we stop. I tell the dealer to just replay the hand and figure out how much the short stack should have in front of him. Why she didn't do this or the floor didn't step in and fix it is beyond me. I was positive they'll discover he's $300 over. They count it out rather quickly and discover hes like $2000 over. Instead of pulling the chips and replaying the action. I do the quick math $1700 x 3 (=$5100) + 6x $500 for the antes( = $3000) = $8100. How does he have 10,100?
He's unsure of it and tells me he'd rather the dealer be sure. I'd rather her do it too. I shut up. She doesn't put the chips in front of everybody and replay the action, instead just counts it out like I did quickly and for some reason makes the same conclusion. The money is then refunded to the bigger stack.
Anybody paying attention to the math problem here and see the mistake we all made? Only after I walked away did I realize he was only $300 over as I initially thought and not $2000 over. Why? We should have multiplied $1700 by four (shover, reshover, small blind and big blind).
I believe the confusion initially was when I was making sure the pot was right the short stack had pulled $1700 back and we knew to multiply what he could win by 3. I kept saying she had to refund the $300 to the big stack from the small blind, because the small stack could only win $1700 x 3. After we started to move on to the next hand, and the bigger stack questioned it, the player had taken his $1700 from the side and intermingled it back into his shorter stack. Still we kept multiplying by three but forgot to accommodate the $1700 which had been on the side initially. Again, had the dealer simply put out the antes and all the chips in front of the players (as I thought was protocol in these situations) the right answer would have been discovered.
Yawn. I know. Boring math and chip logistics.
Here's where it gets important again.
I'm in the big blind the next hand with garbage. The guy who couldn't cover a big blind the hand before shoves. The same old man re-shoves again. I hate my hand and decide I can fold to the money now if the bigger stack wins. First guy shows AK. Second guy QQ.
The run out is xx10, j, Q. The shorter stack has Broadway. Now the QQ is crippled. In retrospect... I believe the QQ would have gone bust had his stack been $1700 less and the shorter stack $1700 more (a $3400 swing). Positions would have been reversed and the bubble over.
Math is fundamental.
But wait... there's more...
So, the next hand I'm in the small blind. The former short stack in the big blind, another player calls from the button and says, "Don't worry, I know just to check it down." The big blind says "absolutely, I'm just going to check it down."
The floor behind me says "Oh, so you guys are colluding?." The dealer almost just deals out the flop and then the turn without going through the pretense of them checking. She stops herself and does it correctly. Regardless, I bust somehow I had Ace 8, and was against AQ and A10 and we all flopped an Ace. After that I walk away but pretty sure nothing was done about the blatant collusion.
By the way, I'm fine with that to a degree. It's always unspoken collusion in that spot and had the guy with Jacks not shoved, these two would probably would have never had actually spoken it. They were more referencing his silliness but nonetheless, when the first guy spoke there was still action to be completed by multiple players, One guy after him ended up folding. Plus, the big blind would have had an option to raise but agreed in advance of the other player folding to not take it lol... so in that regard, yeah, probably a penalty should have been administered even if the intent was not necessarily malicious. You can't do that.
*It's possible a penalty was given after I left as I didn't stack around that long.
Never seen such a comedy of errors on the bubble before... just nonsense. To be honest, I care less about being the bubble boy and more about it being just handled terribly in three consecutive hands.
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Anyway, besides some sit n go wins I ran pretty bad at the Beau Rivage (though I did have a pretty good return off an investment in a guy who hit for a big score in the rentry). Some of my events were rolled over for investors this summer using profits from the WSOP. Obviously, haven't been playing a lot of tournaments (with big prize pools) this year... if it's January and only now am I getting some of their events. Course, I wanted to play in something with big upside. The million dollar heater has that as there are few tournaments with 500k guarantees on a $345 buy-in.
A lot of waiting for nothing. This is how they went:
1. For the first time in a long time I didn't drag a single pot in a tournament. Literally never had the best hand and though I made folds (and was shown better hands often)... playing well and losing the minimum wears on you. When I finally busted it was like somebody put me out my misery.
2. I got Peace-d. Peace Marvel is Louisiana swordfish and tuna fisherman. Good guy, good for the game... whose range, as Prissy Grior says, is the deck. Lots of people have run into his hands and left wringing theirs after busting in odious fashion. He limps. Another guy limps. I look at Aces in the big blind. I put a hearty raise out there. Peace asks if I'm picking on him because I'd raised him quite a lot. He calls for what amounts to at least 15% of his stack. The other player joins the fray. Flop is KJ4. Two diamonds.
I bet pot and commit myself. Peace raises. Uh... King Jack I guess. Not sure I can rethink things and fold. I have the back door draws, the aces, and pairing the board if I behind. Since it's Peace I could be way ahead also. I call. He shows K4. Oh. That's a perfectly reasonable Peach hand to limp call from early position. I don't improve.
3. Play late in to the night, get some momentum get some chips, make some great calls for big pots (King high, second pair on a wet board) and am playing well. Shove on a guy on a flop where we are basically flipping. He snap calles I have Pair of Aces and the 10 clubs on a three club board. He has pair of Aces and Queen kicker. Hit my 10 on the turn and he hits one of two non club queens in the deck to eliminate me. 96% after the turn. Yuck
Regardless... I think I ran bad in every possible way or situation. The bubble being the absolute worst bubble I've ever seen first hand. I hope I'm wrong and the $1700 chip mistake didn't save the old man the second time he shoved. Gross if it did. Maybe I should just not play at the Beau.
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