MID STATES POKER TOUR 11% JUICE?

HOW DO YOU MEASURE "JUICE":

TO GCP:
I just read your pitch for the low juice at the $1k tourney in Baton Rouge.  I’ll take your word on the 11% juice for this particular tournament and that sounds good on the surface.  However, I’m a bit confused as follows:
 
1.  You only mentioned the $1k tourney.  The series actually consists of quite a few other tourneys, none of which actually pay cash winnings, only entry to the next level of play.  What is the juice on them?
3.  The vast majority of the entrants into the $1k main event will probably have “won” their way into the tourney by way of the “qualifiers”.
4.  MidStates will be taking juice from the qualifying rounds too, right?  (11%??)
5.  A lot of the people in the “qualifiers” will probably have “won” their way into the “qualifier” tourney through satellites.
6.  MidStates will be taking juice from the satellite rounds too, right?  (11%??)
7.  As a result of the above statements, it looks like the vast majority of the people playing in the “main event” will have actually already paid juice at least once and probably twice.  Their entry into the main event will constitute a third round of juice.
8.  Therefore, the total average juice collected from the entrants to the main event will probably be more on the order of 25% and could be (theoretically, if all entrants qualified through satellites and then qualifier) as much as 33%?
 
If I’m right above then you either have missed my simple mathematical line of reasoning or you’re intentionally misleading your readers.  I have doubts that you misinterpreted the math and certainly don’t want to believe you’d mislead your readers.
 
Please tell me I’m missing something and explain to me what I’m missing.

RESPONSE:
 
Those are good points. I meant juice on the main. While many will win their way up, and I will note that on the next update, I've never talked about the juice of any tournament with regard to single table or multi table satellites. If I erred and suggested everything was 11% juice then that definitely was an error and I will clarify. If i didn't, I think I'm being consistent. Say I talk about a $365 and only 291 goes to the prize pool, I wouldn't mention that somebody might have won their way in via a single table and been juiced there too. Either way I will bring up what you said and I hope I'm not misleading anybody. Thanks for the heads up.

TO GCP IN RESPONSE TO RESPONSE:

You were technically correct in stating that the juice is 11% on the main but that’s only true if you enter the main directly.  I think the big difference in the series in question is that the main seems to be the only tournament they’re actually paying out in cash.  Every other tournament in the series is only a stepping stone into the main.  My point is that they aren’t actually holding a tournament for only 11% juice if most of the participants have actually paid juice up to three times.
 
It sounds to me that if you enter the main directly you’re getting a really good deal but if you enter a satellite to get into a qualifier to get into the main juice has been taken three times.  Consequently they are actually collecting as much as 33% juice on a lot of the participants (won their way into the main via satellite then qualifier), 22% juice on a lot of others (won their way into the main by directly entering a qualifier), and only 11% juice on the few who enter the main directly.  It’s impossible to do the math unless you know the path taken by every participant but they are probably collecting 25% to 30% juice overall on the entrant pool for the main.

Comments

Anonymous said…
nobody is forcing you to play satellites, are you just trying to argue? Do you expect them to run juicefree satellites and just take the hit on the cost of running the tournament/series? The juice is among the best I've seen in the country. Just b/c the first tournament you enter has a prize of a different tournament doesn't make it any different than if it paid $1110 and then you decided to buy into the main.
Anonymous said…
I agree with the 1st comment, who the hell has time to worry about the juice, don't play if you don't like it ! Common sense will tell you they are not doing this for free ! I won my seat to the main for $ 60.00. I wish they would coordinate with Laburge to have the tour at that casino, the belle is a bit nasty, you should take antibiotics before you go !
Anonymous said…
For what it's worth, I'm happy we got a response and a chance to clarify. We don't want to mislead our readers. That being said, I fear we did a little bit, after adding up the prize pool, I discovered an error on our part about the juice.

Like many tours in the fine print the dealer toke is taken out of the buy-in. I think I read yesterday ~3% on a hard copy at the Belle. Which means $970 goes to the prize pool, out of $1100 (or $1110 because everybody pays the $10 "optional" dealer toke). Math, math, math... obviously more than 11% juice.

With that 3% factored in and comparing it to some other 1ks out there it's actually quite in line with many other events. Because the MSPT only has one event it's not really that fair to compare it to other tours or stops who rake higher percentages on the lesser events. Apples to apples it's a pretty close to standard price at the 1k buy-in, so my apologies for the (unintended) hyperbole on the front page.

-Wild Bill

P.S. For those that may question whether or not the mistake was unintended when researching this comment/correction I saw even structure guru Allen Kessler made the same mistake on a thread he started on 2+2 comparing juice for tournaments. Matt Savage corrects him there. Also interesting to see some juice numbers from last year that are relevant to this discussion.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/65/mttc-live/major-tournament-venue-rake-comparisons-1325764/.

Popular posts from this blog

WSOP Academy Review

Discovery Channel Poker Pilot in New Orleans

Students crushing it.